March 23, 2022

Episode #17: Kevin Gearheart – Rehab Medical

Kevin Gearheart is a renowned healthcare business leader currently serving as president for Rehab Medical (, one of the nation’s largest complex rehab technology providers. He leads the company through a singular mission, to improve lives. This mission has resulted in the company’s consistent yearly growth, an unwavering focus on service excellence, a thriving company culture, and a myriad of growth and development opportunities for its employees.

Over the last four years, Kevin’s leadership tactics have proven to be successful as the company was named Top 25 Fastest Growing Companies in Indiana as well as Inc 5000’s Fastest Growing Private Companies.……

His healthcare career began in the fall of 2006 when he became chief operating officer for Dr. Tavel Optical Group, Indiana’s largest eye care provider. In 2011, he joined the Rehab Medical team as chief operating officer, eventually working his way up to president in 2016.

Kevin has over 20 years of experience driving business growth by creating solid structure, support, and company cultures. He earned his BA in Psychology from Wabash College and went on to earn his MBA at Indiana University – Kelley School of Business.


hello this is coach Tim Campsall and i’m your host for the self-made is a myth make a difference together show where we’re talking with successful business owners to hear their story of the journey to building their business and because we know that no one achieves success on their own that we are recognizing folks who have come alongside of us and helped us on our business journey today i’m excited to have a fellow business owner from the indianapolis area with us my guest has a large horseshoe scar on his head from having his head crushed when he was five from playing baseball in his backyard so we’re going to want to hear more about that he enjoys spending time outdoors and is most proud of the consistent growth of his business four times ibj fastest growing company in indiana and working towards a five-peat five repeat um please join me in welcoming kevin to the show today thanks for having me on tim awesome kevin well let’s start with having you um introduce yourself tell us a little bit of your back story your personal story where you were born where you live about your family and definitely we want to hear about that uh that’s that baseball scar yeah well uh you know so so born and raised uh all over the place my dad was military so he was in the air force moved around a lot i was born in england spent a lot of time in northern maine which was a lot of fun um and so moved around and it really just kind of helped set my set my groundings as a person just getting getting comfortable with being uncomfortable uh if you will moving into different school systems and all that so good experience is that i have three older brothers we’re all very close in age we’re all very competitive and you know that’s probably how i ended up you know getting getting hit with a baseball bat is playing out in the backyard with my brothers and some neighbor kids and you know everybody’s running around and got a little too close and somebody swung around and unfortunately happened to be the biggest kid there and just hit me in the side of the head and just knocked me out and uh so bad bad experience but but uh obviously i made it through so uh tj’s you know they my my wife calls me safety dad and there’s a reason for that because i know what can go wrong when you’re a small child and you’re not paying attention yes

um but uh yeah so backstory you know i’m i’m one of four boys grow up with a with a healthy family of just you know a lot of a lot of love and not a lot of else else wise and just you know really just trying to figure out you know you talk about grinding but you know my dad instilled the work ethic in me uh more than anything but but also just a sense of being grateful for what we have and and i think that’s really just what resonates with me is you know work really hard be grateful you know try and help others and you know it’s really just just how i was raised and so you know played a lot of sports growing up uh played small college basketball wabash college they actually just went to the d3 final four which was exciting uh didn’t didn’t take home the hardware but it was a really fun ride um played sports a lot which again you know just a lot of lessons instilled in just just playing sports and being a part of a team and recognizing how important roles are uh for everybody involved to be successful so you know a lot of different things and a lot of different uh people have impacted my life and so that’s why you know really enjoy being on here because couldn’t agree more that you know no one is self-made and it takes it takes everyone um you know they say it takes a village to raise a child but i also think it takes a village and a lot of support to to grow a successful business as well so tell us a little bit more about your family yeah so family i have three boys um you know they’re they’re all crazy and they’re all busy uh my wife she’s an entrepreneur as well she uh she owns a coffee shop in uh in speedway indiana and so uh you know just just just a lot of fun a lot of a lot of activity and uh you know just just trying to make it through really fantastic and what’s all their names uh so my oldest son is christian and then i have a middle son named pen and my youngest son is named rome uh my wife is his name’s sierra fantastic awesome so tell us about how the business came about how how at what point did you know that or feel like you had the confidence to go out on your own and start your own business you know for for me it’s been an interesting story so you know i i started off you know undergrad graduated works in tech telecom for a number of years and then i went back got my mba and after i got my mba from from indiana university i started working for a retail optical chain and family-owned business um second generation owner his dad had started the business and so i worked there for for a little while and i think it was interesting because when i first started working there i had a number of different roles and after being there maybe a year i just it just all of a sudden kind of hit me like you know what i can i can run this operation i feel confident that you know i’m not there yet obviously it’s going to take me a lot to do it and the owner had to have the trust in me to to give me that responsibility but you know that that just i think just jumping in and doing it and having some experiences and all the experiences in my life that led me to that point i felt you know i think i can do this and and i got the opportunity um that opportunity is not my current business but it it made me recognize i really want to be you know an owner of a business at some point and so being involved with that business and running that business and and i really you know i tried to actually buy into that business and and you know i get it family owned business it was like hey we’re not interested in having a non-family member as an owner and so no harm no foul still a good relationship with them but it just made me recognize that i really wanted to have some ownership in a business and so i wasn’t even really looking but i think at that point one of my friends had reached out to me and said hey here’s another company that you should look at you know young aggressive owner um you know just they’re they’re doing some things in healthcare that you should take a look at so i started talking to that group and as i was talking to uh the president of the company at the time he was a partner with a number of other people company was headquartered out in salt lake and there was just a different strategic direction that he wanted to take the business and so as he and i were talking and he knew hey i want to have some ownership in a business i’m not interested in making a move unless i can you know buy in or start my own thing and it just became apparent that hey we have an opportunity here so so really what we ended up doing was we split that company in half the other owners kept the other side of the business uh he ended up buying them out of that business and then and then we ended up you know bringing a handful of partners in and so we split that company in two and it was an interesting kind of journey because you know we’re at the time we split it we had some sales we had about eight locations in the midwest but we were starting over from everything else there was no corporate office there’s no infrastructure you know and so we’re starting over and we’re really we’re building this plane while it’s in the air and you know you’re like okay we need i.t we need accounting we need you know back office we needed a corporate office we were working out a small regional office that you know we’re busting out of and so it was really an opportunity for me and it was it was a it was a risky move because there was no guarantee that you know that this would work it was it was a big risk but it was such an exciting opportunity i knew that was something that i wanted to take the risk on and you know the the business partner that he’s still my partner today he’s the ceo of our organization you know i saw that he trusted in me and was willing to to allow me to be a part of that business and so it’s been an interesting journey that was about 11 years ago and you know we took several years uh just really building the foundation and so you know probably the first three four five years it was build the foundation and figure out what it is that we’re going to do how do we make this a a profitable successful business and then really over the last you know over the last five years we’ve grown it at an average of 30 percent a year every single year and we’ve developed really a structure and a model that we we’ve got a good consistent growth we’re privately held we’ve brought on a few other partners over over the time and we’re just continuing to grow the business we’ve also purchased a couple other businesses over time that that all fit within kind of what we’re trying to do and you know our mission with all of our businesses is to improve lives and you know it’s it’s improve lives of whether it’s you know patients on the health care side we have a real estate entity and improving lives of the the people that are gonna you know work with us from a real estate standpoint but ultimately also just improving the lives of our employees and we’re very passionate about that and so i feel very grateful uh for one to to have found you know the people that i really enjoy working with i’m also just the right opportunity and the right fit for me and so it’s it’s it’s been a great journey um you know i’m i’m not done yet i i know i got a lot of gray in my beard but i’m still pretty young um and so we’re you know we got a lot of time to go yet but you know thankfully i’ve really just found a good group of people to work with and a great opportunity and we’re just trying to figure out how do we continue to grow and build a great company or great companies yeah well tell us kevin a little bit more about let’s talk specifically rehab medical and then you can explain the the other sister companies as well so tell us what you guys do how you’re i know you you made you mentioned your mission to you know to improve lives but tell us more specifically how do you guys do that yeah so rehab medical is a complex rehab technology company and really what that means is most of the patients that we take care of have either a spinal cord injury or a you know als ms some sort of you know what’s called a group three diagnosis and and really our job is to make sure that these patients can get equipment um and and have some level of independence in their home you know getting anybody who’s dealt with insurance knows that this is a very difficult frustrating process and for this process you know you’re dealing with you got to have a doctor involved and obviously the patient and then you’ve got a physical therapist and then we have a specialty position called an atp that’s involved in the process and then you have caregivers and then you have the insurance company and so there’s all these different components that are involved and honestly if a patient had to try and get a piece of equipment on their own it would take them forever and and they would give up and so what we really do is we just we navigate that process we’re kind of the quarterback making sure that everything happens within the right steps and we make sure the documentation is there and everything’s covered deliver the equipment uh assess the equipment make sure that it’s set up the right way make sure that you know it’s aligned for the patient’s needs and so what we really do is just navigate that process and make sure that we can get equipment to patients that have a need for it so again whether it’s you know if they’re a spinal cord injury patient you know they now have a piece of equipment that they can continue to live you know their life and have some independence you know go to school go to work whatever it is and then if it’s a patient that has you know a group three diagnosis and they’re truly in their home at least they’re not bed bound you know they have some independence they can get around their house you know or or it keeps them out of a facility which is a lot more costly to the to the health care system so you know that’s a lot of what we do um and and you know we’ve recognized that there’s a heavy need and so we’re we’re in 16 states right now our goal is to get into all 50 right and we want to continue to grow and and really our growth mindset is is built around taking care of more patients we feel like we’re really good at what we do and if we grow we’ll continue to take care of more patients if we grow we also continue to create opportunities for employees you know so hiring more uh promotions you know one of the things that i’m probably most proud of is we had 41 promotions as a company wow that’s 41 people that their life got better because they you know took on more responsibility got paid more better title you know they’re they’re growing and developing as individuals within our organization and so that’s those are the things that i get really excited about um from a business standpoint it’s a it’s a relatively unique um mindset in terms of putting employees first a lot of a lot of organizations have shifted over the years from an employee mindset to a bottom line mindset so tell us a little bit more about you know why and how is that important to you guys yeah it’s really important you know if you take i mean you take care of the employees they’ll take care of the business uh and they’ll take care of our patients you know and we’re getting big enough that you know you can’t have one or two people do it you know it takes it takes an entire team and and that’s one thing that we recognize and we focus on heavily is you know what’s the right structure for the business to make sure that we’re sustainable and how do we make sure that you know we’re focusing on our employees because you know again they’re going to be the ones that take care of the business and and so we really focus on longevity and and development and our employees to make sure that hey you know if if they’re gonna they have choice and right now they got a lot of choice because you know unemployment’s at record lows and people are leaving and so you know that’s why we really focus on improving their lives through whether it’s development or opportunities or whatever it is that we can provide because we know that they go somewhere else you know if they’re not improving their life and their life isn’t better by working with us they’re going to go somewhere else and they should and so you know for us we also know that we’ve got a really aggressive you know goal as an organization the only way we get there is with all of our people and and they’ve got to be aligned and they’ve got to work together and stay right and that and that stay part is important for us because you know we recognize that you know longevity leads to trust and and that’s where you know one of the things that we’ve got is we’ve got a leadership team that’s been together for you know over a decade and and we know we know what each other’s going to do and we know there’s trust and i know that this person is going to do this and they’re going to do their role and i’m going to play my role and you know there’s no ego in there it’s hey we’re working together to build this organization and it and it goes throughout the whole organization it’s not just leadership that has to stay we need everybody to stay right because the longer they stay the better they’re going to get the better we’re going to take care of our patients i mean it’s a cycle and we know how important that is to the business and that’s really where we spend a lot of our time focusing i love that perspective we we talk a lot about that in in the clients that that i interact with is if you’ve got a great culture that’s going to attract awesome people and then you set them up for success um then you know everything else follows from that and so i just love your perspective you guys are i’ve got it right and and uh like i said earlier it’s not the norm so you guys should feel very proud of of the unique uh culture that you guys are setting up so it’s good for you thank you hey kevin um tell us a story where someone pushed you or inspired you that you could do it and what was the impact that that person had uh on your success yeah you know i i always i think about when i was in college i had a i had a really good friend of mine and he was a very entrepreneurial mindset um he was always you know he was the guy that was like selling t-shirts and and he was you know what during the race we go down and sell ear plugs and you know he’s just always looking for something to do and i was it was never like my default mode to say hey i’m going to put myself out there and i’m going to go try this stuff and and he just was always pushing me and he would never let me he would never let me say no right like he’s the kind of guy’s like no you’re we’re going you know and he’s a lot bigger than me too so yeah we’re going and he just he always pushed me and and what i learned from him was that you know don’t focus on don’t focus on your fears don’t focus on what could go wrong it’s you know the first step is the first step just do it right and just you know it’s it’s you know when you’re building a house right you just lay another brick and and i think that’s where you know he really instilled that in me and pushed me in a way that you know when i was you know 20 21 22 years old i was not comfortable doing those things and he’s truly the individual that just just forced me to do it and and i think sometimes you need to have that in your life and if you think about you know if you have someone who’s pushing you it’s not going to take no for an answer you know sometimes that’s a really good thing and that’s what i needed personally in my life at that time and so he’s just an individual that really helped me along that path that’s awesome there’s a a saying that everything that we want out of life and in our business is on the other side of our comfort zone so having that ability to push you outside of it is fantastic what’s his name his name is jeff faber awesome uh kevin what’s the biggest learning that you’ve had as a business owner over the years um you know we probably don’t have enough time to talk about all of the learnings and all the mistakes um you know i think i think the biggest learning and the most important takeaway as a business owner is is truly that you have to schedule time to focus on the business you know it’s it’s so easy to just day to day and operational and just go go go and you have to schedule time to step away and focus on the business and and make sure that you’re mapping out where are we going what are our plans how are we going to get there who’s important in that role and and i think with that i think it’s really important you can’t do that in a vacuum you know one of the things that we’ve we’ve gotten really good at is regimenting into you know our annual uh annual focus on where we’re going this next year how are we going to get there you know we go off-site we spend you know a couple days really spending a lot of time on that and then and then quarterly we come back to it you know first quarter we come back and say hey where are we at with those plans you know let’s update let’s make sure we hold each other accountable i think that’s something that we’ve done a really good job of that i think is super important is hey you said you were going to do this did you do it because nobody wants to show up to that meeting and say hey i didn’t get my job right no nobody wants to be that person yeah and so we we literally you know we we schedule these meetings and we set target and to-do lists for every single employee on the executive staff and then we come back and say did you get it done and if you didn’t set a new date um you know there’s there’s no excuses there’s no anything it’s like did you get done yes or no if i didn’t get it done what’s my new deadline right and then and then focus it and then three months later we’re gonna do the same thing and then so every six months we have a full day meeting at least where we go through and you know some things change and so we tweak it but then every three months in between it’s it’s really just to catch up to make sure we hold ourselves accountable and so i think that’s something that has been really important for us that i don’t think we’d be where we are if it weren’t for that approach and just it has to be intentional and and it has to be targeted you got to step away you got to work on the business and and really analyze it because it’s you get too busy in the day-to-day that if you don’t step aside you just you never stop and really look at the important things in the business and so i would say for and i don’t even think it matters what size business you know i i mentioned my wife runs a coffee shop you know same approach you got to step aside you got to look at hey where are we at what are we doing what are our numbers obviously understanding finances is important but you know the financials tell you where you have problems you can go hunt them down and make decisions but if you don’t step back i think you’re just not going to be as successful as you can be doesn’t mean you can’t be successful i just think for me that’s one thing that i’ve learned that you know it’s it’s intentional it’s set aside the time get a group of people that are going to hold you accountable and hold each other accountable have you know i i i hear this quote one time and i think it just really resonates with me but it’s you know play long-term games with long-term people and and that’s really important for us because that’s what we’re trying to do is build a great company long term and you gotta have people that have the same mindset that are gonna hold you accountable for that so that’s i’d say that’s the most important thing that that i’ve learned over the last decade uh running a business yeah i love the idea of stepping out of the day-to-day because if we allow it to the business will eat every waking hour we have right that’s right and so i a lot of folks will say well i just can’t find the time well you have to prioritize it right you absolutely have to your point you have to find the time to work on the business now if we just leave it to chance then we’re just going to be fighting fires all the time as opposed to working towards our long-term goal and there our subconscious is incredibly powerful right when we go through those planning exercises and map out where do we want the business to be at the end of the year our reticular activating system or our subconscious is now paying attention all 24 7 right trying to find ways to make us be successful and achieve those goals so by not writing down our goals and having a plan in place there’s that famous quote of you know a failure to plan is a plan to fail right and so i love what you’re saying in terms of let’s let’s you know begin with the end in mind stephen covey’s principle and map out where do we want the business to be and then get quarterly plans in place to get there yeah yeah that’s how long you guys been doing that uh we’ve been doing that for probably eight or nine years you know again we started early uh and and i think it’s it’s it’s changed over time a little bit i think over the last you know five or six years we’ve really gotten into a strong cadence that works for us i think early on we implemented you know you tweak you change a little bit um but i think it’s you know it’s it’s to me i think it’s been important to just just not not not allow that to slip right we’ve never missed a quarter of those meetings we don’t say hey we’re too busy we just hey we have to do this this is this is the most important thing for our business so prioritize it yeah so for everyone listening that that i would agree that’s the most important part right for every business is have those plans in place and dedicate the time to those plans so great job kevin um next question here is we know that business success doesn’t happen in isolation so tell us about a challenge that you’ve had during the years um that a fellow business owner came alongside you that to help you get through it yeah i think for us um you know covid was was really one of the biggest challenges that we faced you know and we’ve had a lot of them over the years but i think that one was an interesting one in in a lot of it was because you know you think about our business i talked about you know taking care of patients at that time uh you know facilities clinics doctors they weren’t letting anyone in and and so it was hey hold on we you know we’re scared we don’t know what’s going on we can’t let anybody in the facilities you know it was almost like a grinding to a halt and and i think that you know one of the things that that you know but one of my business partners and our ceo is really good at is is focusing on hey how do we push through this right we’re not going to take a step back and we’re not going to wait and we’re not going to see what happens we are going to attack the problem and we’re going to push through this and and he was the first one that said hey guys you know we we got to push through this and then it was as we collaborated as a group you know we started talking about okay what’s behind it because i think that’s the biggest challenge we had was people saying we’re going to push through but but how do we overcome the objections of hey we’re not seeing any patients we’re not doing this and it just went back to hey what are we trying to accomplish right you know we’re we have patients that that if they don’t get equipment they are going to end up in a facility and at the time of of course starting it was hey that’s the worst place you want to be you know and so how do we explain that how do we communicate that how do we make sure that you know one we can get into those facilities and explain to them why it’s so important for them to continue fighting this to take care of patients that otherwise are going to either you know one they’re gonna they’re gonna increase their their level of falls because they don’t have mobility equipment their wounds are gonna get worse because they’re bed bound and they’re not able to move around and wait shift or they’re gonna have to go into a facility and all three of those options are terrible for them and our ceo was really just you know really adamant about push through push through push through let’s let’s come up with a solution um and so it was hey that’s the solution for how do we fight through that and communicate to make sure we keep the business moving but then we also started really talking through and and coming up with how do we come up with a solution to you know decrease the the level of safety concerns right and so one of the things that we did and we’re really big on technology innovation is you know we’re pulling our cto in and saying hey what can we do to to reduce the level of of you know i i guess proximity from our you know our employees to patients right and so we came up with a delivery system to where we developed all these videos that we could send out in advance and the patients could view them and that way they didn’t have to have as much in-person instruction at time of delivery and so we’re constantly just innovating and coming up with ways to push through this but you know it was all it was all primed by our ceo you know patrick mcginley who is just he is he is very one is very smart he’s very you know aggressive in the right way aggressive can sometimes have a negative connotation but he’s very energetic in the right way to say hey we’re not going to sit back and just accept that that somebody says no it’s you know but but it’s not because of of any reason besides what we’re trying to accomplish we’re trying to take care of patients so how do we use that as the right motivation to come up with a solution and and it was just it was really powerful for us we didn’t skip a beat during covid uh because of that and it just it just set the i think it really just set the pace for who we are as an organization which is hey you know we’re we’re going to grind and we’re going to come up with solutions we’re not going to allow anybody to tell us no um unless it’s the right reason but hey we were right and we took care of a lot of patients and we were able to fight through it so you know just just having people like that on our team and really just driving it and just working together just it was definitely a moment that i’m very proud of yeah but he’s obviously you know one of the biggest reasons that we’re we’re so successful is you know his mindset and just just pushing through in that way the mindset is so key we have a terminology that we talk about above and below the point of power so you know folks who are below the point of power you know go into blame excuses in denial and and allow the the whatever the circumstance is to control them and covet to your point is a great example where unfortunately a lot of people you know kind of ducked their head in the sand and said hey there’s nothing that we can do and so we’re just going to have to wait this out and unfortunately a lot of those businesses went out of business versus above the point of power taking ownership accountability and responsibility right and saying hey we’ve got to pivot or we’ve got to do things differently we’ve got to figure out a way to make it through this craziness and to your point the example you just shared is the folks who did that oftentimes came out of covet in a much better position and a stronger position right set themselves up to thrive coming out of the pandemic versus those who said hey we can’t control anything so that is that’s awesome i love the mindset i love that we’re gonna figure this out mentality and clearly um that guy that has put you guys in a much stronger position yeah and it’s you know the nice thing is it’s also given us some tools that you know we’ve used kind of kind of post covet i mean we’re still in it but i mean you know using that technology and using things to kind of speed up the process and communicate better and more effectively like it’s amazing because now we’re like oh now we have these ideas that are that are really useful and we continue to use them because it just makes us better as a company and it’s it’s more beneficial for the patients yeah isn’t it interesting that somehow sometimes a crisis can actually you know help us innovate it’s in an area that we wouldn’t have thought of without it yeah that’s right so kevin if you had to pick three people in your business journey that you’re most grateful for being there uh as part of your business growth who are those three people and and how did they help the business yeah i think you know the three people for me are probably going to be just you know three of my business partners you know i have a handful of people that we’ve been in business with for a number of years but you know so so our ceo uh patrick mcganley our vp of sales keith hawkins and our vp of operations jared rankin you know the four of us have been working together for you know over 10 years and and it’s just what’s been nice is i think that it’s the mindset of you know no ego and and just hey we’re all going to play our role and we know our role and we’re going to do it as as well as we can and we’re going to work together as a team and just you know i think i think that’s been a really helpful thing and and just you know the personalities and the mindset and the approach of working together and pushing each other and and and also just supporting each other you know we’ve all had you know various very you know we work together a decade somebody’s had something in their personal life or a challenge that they fought through and just the level of support i think is really important i i think that’s that’s something that we don’t probably talk about or think about enough you know because people like to try and you know they don’t want to show vulnerability and they want to keep their professional and personal lives separate and i think i think that’s one thing that you know we’ve gotten to a really good space on is we recognize when someone needs some support you know outside of just the business right and so it’s it’s been really helpful and great that we have a team that focuses like that and and we’ve got a number of other folks on our on our team as well that really just you know we’ve worked well so so long and such such a good methodology together that it just it’s a nice place to be you know and i think that’s where we’ve been able to do this because we do have the right people in the right positions you know it’s it’s the old you know get the right people on the bus and get them on the right seats and i think that’s something we have and it’s it’s been nice because it’s not just professional it’s also personal and supporting each other you know whenever there’s a need in that regard as well well it can be very lonely at the top and so having that network right of of your partners who are also friends that you can talk to and all right and share some of those challenges or inner thoughts or you know fears or whatever it is right it’s it’s important to be able to get that out and and we don’t you know sometimes we don’t want to take that home and you know and share it with our family because you know we don’t want to burden them so you know having that network at at work is is very healthy and um you know that that’s awesome that you guys have that yeah it is so kevin as you look to the next three to five years what are the biggest challenges you you guys are going to face to achieve your goals and who are the types of people that you’re going to need to know to help you overcome those challenges yeah i think you know for us as we’re continually you know looking to grow our business and we’re looking to grow up the right way we don’t want to grow ourselves out of business you know we we’re we’re aggressive but but not overly risky um you know we take that very seriously and so i think for us and this we’ve recognized this over the last couple years is you get to a certain point in growth and it really becomes about you know having the right people and and making sure that you have the right people in the right places and you’re constantly assessing it and figuring out what structure do we need to have in place you know you you go 30 a year every year you get to a certain point that number becomes big yeah and now you know our our biggest challenge honestly is is just you know how do we have the right people and how do we constantly focus on our structure and and i think some of it is you know we we’re big on on you know i said you know all the promotions we had last year we’re really big on using our bench but we also have to bring in people from the outside that have the right experience but also the right mindset and i think that’s one thing that you know as i think about our biggest challenges is when we bring people in from the outside is integrating them into our culture and and doing it in a way that that works for both sides you know and it takes time and i think it takes patience and i think i think it’s it’s interesting because i figured out how long it takes someone from the outside to come in and be successful but these are people that were successful in their own right before coming to us and so they come in and they’re like i just you know and and i think they get frustrated because it’s hard and i’m just interested pump the brakes like i don’t i don’t need you to save the world i need you to learn our business learn our people learn our culture integrate into our culture and and i think that’s been a challenge and so really it’s you know how do you make sure to get them in the right mindset to know like hey come in learn the business first yeah that’s what i think it’s kind of right seek first to understand before seeking to be understood and it’s really hard for people to do that and so i think for us it just it comes down to you know how do we grow the business how do we how do we find the right people how do we also develop our teams internally and so we’ve done a lot of focus on that as well which is you know what are the right tools our people need you know we we do a lot of internal leadership training we’re also looking at how do we have just just general development tools and opportunities for employees you know and so we’ve partnered with a couple couple of groups that are really good so right now we’re partnering with a group called hrd and they are doing some some development and leadership training for our for our uh emerging leaders um you know and it just it’s really it’s finding the right groups to work with to make sure that we can continue to train develop and also just find the right talent you know i think that’s i’m not worried about you know i mean obviously there’s a lot of external things you worry about but you can’t control some of those to a certain extent but you know i think our biggest challenge is just you know if you’re going to grow you’ve got to have good people and and how do you how do you find them how do you retain them how do you how do you support them how do you develop them you know that’s that’s our biggest challenge and i think it will be going forward fair enough yeah you mentioned earlier getting the right people on the bus i spent most of my career in family-owned companies and i remember moving to a new company and and the ceo said to me who was second generation owner said hey tim you’ve probably read that book the first 90 days i want you to forget everything you read because we took the time during the interview process to make sure that you were the right person for the role we don’t need you to get points on the board and prove yourself to us we need you to learn our culture right and find ways to leverage your experience and into our culture in a way that it fits um don’t feel like you’ve got to prove yourself and and that was it what you said earlier just reminded me of that it’s such a different and unique experience right and and perspective that it is hard for an outsider to to slow down and realize that hey you know getting the right people on the bus is more important right you can’t teach a cultural fit you can teach skills and so making sure that we bring in folks who we feel are the right cultural fit is is going to be the long-term success of the business yeah that’s right and that’s where you know i think it’s in this day and age i think there’s a lot of people that are looking to you know they’re looking for short success right you know buy a company flip it sell it you know i mean there’s there’s a lot of private equity there’s a lot of money out there that people are looking to you know buy and consolidate and acquire and you know we acquire companies too so i’m kind of talking on both sides but i think it’s really important you know for us it’s nice that hey we’re we’re in this for the long haul right we’re not looking for short-term fixes um i’m const i’m constantly aware of burnout because of that too but also like hey i don’t i don’t need you to be great in the first six months i need you to be great for six years and so i’m willing to take some time to get you there to to really have you impact the business long term yeah and as you said earlier right the the culture that you have is has led to the successes that you’ve had and so to maintain that culture it’s going to be important and so you we don’t want somebody to come in and and think that they’re going to shake up the culture because we already know that that is what’s been making us successful absolutely so jim rohn one of my favorite authors says we become the average of the five people that we spend the most time with so uh kevin as you think about that is that something that makes you excited something that makes you nervous what’s your standpoint on that um i think it makes me excited you know i’m fortunate i’ve got a good group of people that i’m around obviously business partners i also have a number of people you know that that i that i you know spend time with uh i’d say personally but they’re also you know very various to business people and just you know also just a similar mindset of doing things the right way trying to be a good person trying to take care of other people um and so i’m very fortunate that i’m surrounded by a lot of great people and and you know got a lot of good good good business people in my life a lot of good friends who are also good business people um that that kind of challenge you and keep you keep you on your toes and keep you keep you uh humble and uh so i’m excited i’m very fortunate in that regard do you have a favorite author business author um you know i uh actually i do and i don’t know why i’m blanking on his name real quick i’m literally listening to his book right now which is uh leaders eat last um simon sinek um yeah i really enjoy his stuff and i think it’s because i’m a psychology major uh for undergrad and so a lot of his stuff is is psychology based and it’s it’s it’s just interesting to to hear him talk and it’s you know obviously he’s very intelligent guy you know great great author great speaker um i really enjoy his stuff i think it’s i think it’s just really spot on for what we’re trying to do and a lot of what he talks about is you know people and and it’s it’s interesting because he talks a lot about people but he also intermixes you know military and you know government and and how like the marines do things and how the seals do things and so it’s interesting to see that because it’s all it’s all about how do you how do you create a successful path and so um he’s he i would say he’s right now my favorite author i like a lot of different people but right now since that’s what i’m reading slash listening to it’s a front of mind i guess awesome last question here kevin if something catastrophic happened in the business who’s the first person you’d call and what would that conversation sound like um i the first person i would call would be my wife uh she is she is my you know you talk about business partner she is my life partner uh she is my rock and uh you know i just one i think she she’s just a great listener you know she knows me um she understands the business because i talk about it to her um you know she’s just a wonderful person and i think she’s also just like i said she’s you know you talk about surrounding yourself with people and you talk about you know not being self-made um you know she is absolutely uh somebody that’s helped me you know just get to where i am and and who i am um so you know that would be my first call for sure uh first first and always awesome so kevin sounds like you’ve been blessed with some incredible people who have helped you along the journey if they were all here on the show today what would you want to say to them i just thank you you know i i think you know i really try and stay focused on being grateful and i think that’s really important to to kind of start your day and recognize all the things that you have and i think for me when i think about things that i have it’s not it’s not material items right it’s just people it’s the people in my life and i’m very grateful for that i’m grateful for you know my family and i’m grateful you know for the family that i grew up with i’m grateful for the family i have now i’m grateful for my friends i just a lot of people that i think no matter you know how hard things can get at times when you have people in your life it just it’s a lot easier to kind of deal with things and put them into perspective and so you know for me it’s just thank you and it’s just you know being grateful um you know you you talk about self-made i mean it it’s impossible you know i hey there’s so many people that we rely on in our lives that we need you know to connect with uh to get through this thing and so i’m just very grateful and i think the very short simple uh answer to that question is just thank you awesome kevin it’s been a pleasure speaking with you today thanks so much for being on the show yeah tim thank you very much i love what you’re doing here i think i think it’s just such a great idea and a great concept and it definitely needs to be talked about more so thank you for having me on absolutely so to everyone who tuned in thanks for listening to the self made as a myth show with your host coach tim camsell be sure to help us spread the movement by liking the show and posting it on your social media to join our movement go to be mad together dot com okay folks that’s a wrap make sure to pay it forward and i’ll see you all next time take care