April 10, 2024

Episode #137: Andrea Butcher – HRD A Leadership Development Company

Andrea is a visionary—she knows how to lead organizations from big picture to execution through the talent within the business. She is a dynamic speaker, executive coach, and facilitator.

As the CEO of HRD – A Leadership Development Company, she leads a national team of expert facilitators and coaches and drives the organization’s growth strategy. She also hosts a daily leadership podcast, Being [at Work] and is the author of The Power in the Pivot and HR Kit for Dummies. In 2020, she was recognized by the Indianapolis Women’s Journal as a Woman of Influence.

Andrea’s work spans organizations of all sizes and industries all over the world; she has experience in global HR positions, consulting, operations, and executive roles for private and public organizations.

Andrea is also the co-founder and President of Next Gen Talent, a program specifically designed to equip emerging HR leaders for success.

Andrea’s greatest achievement is her daughter, Mayson, who is a senior at IU and graduating in May with honors in human biology.





In honor of the fellow business owners in your life that had an impact on you becoming the person you are today, let’s celebrate them. Click this link to apply to be on our podcast to recognize those people: https://www.BeMADTogether.com


Intro: You’re listening to the self made is a myth. Make a difference together show with your host coach, Tim Campsall, where we talk with successful business owners to hear the stories of their journeys in building their successful businesses. And more importantly, we recognize the folks who helped them excel because we know that achieving business success is not something we can do on our own.

Coach Tim Campsall: Hello, everyone. This is coach Tim Campsall, and I’m excited to have a CEO from Indiana with us today. My guest loves experiencing new things, and she’s most proud of the growing ability that she’s had to grow emerging leaders. And that’s been a focus for her in her entire career. It’s my pleasure to welcome Andrea to the show today.

Hello, Andrea.

Andrea Butcher: Hi, Tim. How are you, my friend?

Coach Tim Campsall: I am so awesome. Thanks for asking. Hey, let’s start with having you introduce yourself. Tell us your full name and a little bit of your personal story, like where you were born and live about your family and hobbies,

Andrea Butcher: My origin story, all of the things, my name is Andrea Butcher, and I am so grateful to get to do work that I love so much that I’m so passionate about.

It is a get-to-do. Most days I think, really, like I get paid to do this. I get to lead this amazing business with these amazing people. So I’ll tell you more about that. I grew up in Southern Indiana and I’m so fortunate, Tim, that I had parents who always encouraged me to go and do, and one of the core messages growing up with my dad was always, it is such a big world, go explore it.

And so I have always been such an adventuresome spirit and, out of graduate school from Indiana State moved to Chicago. And my first role was with an organization, an electronics distributor that was headquartered in London. And it was a global business of about 10, 000 employees. So the, at the time the business was growing, I joined as an HR business partner.

The business was growing and investing a lot in its people’s capability. And looking back now, I see how fortuitous that journey was to get me to where I am today. So I was at Premier  for eight years, ended up leading a global team of learning and development professionals, got an opportunity to literally travel all over the world, equipping leaders and realized really.

Early in my career, if we were proactive in equipping leaders to actually lead, a lot of these employee relations issues would go away. So that has been, I’m grateful that I had that awareness. I think it was preempted a lot by my graduate studies. I have a master’s in human resource development. And so was looking for opportunities, to develop organizational capabilities in a broader way. And so it became apparent to me, and that has been my sole focus throughout my career is developing leaders.

Coach Tim Campsall: That’s awesome. What’s your what’s your favorite thing to do in your downtime?

Andrea Butcher: I don’t have a lot of downtime.

I’m not a downtime kind of person. Feel like I’m at my most productive when I have a lot going on. Now I’m very intentional about filling my life, but I guess if I had a day to do whatever, it would be something new. It would be, a new experience, a new place, a new culture, new food. Like I just really love new experiences.

And so that, that gives me a lot of energy.

Coach Tim Campsall: And  we were just talking offline that you had a fun adventure with your daughter recently.

Andrea Butcher: Yeah, we went to, for her last spring break of her college years, we went to London for a few days and Paris for a few days, and it was just really magical to see it through her eyes.

She’d never been to Europe before and to experience all the new, the amazing food. We went to a great show. We did all the touristy things. We did some shopping. We walked a lot, I think maybe 40 miles or something across that week, but it was amazing. And like anyone listening who has kids like that kind of quality time one on one with your kid is very special.

We made memories of a lifetime, no doubt.

Coach Tim Campsall: It’s pretty cool. My wife’s son invited her for a trip to Spain and she was so flattered that he would want to spend, his free time with her. So I can just imagine how much fun you guys had. So is there a funny story that your family likes to tell about you that you’d be willing to share with us today?

Andrea Butcher: So my nickname growing up, I think this will tell a lot about the dynamic in my family. My nickname growing up was the governor. My brothers dubbed me with that at an early age. So I am the baby. I have two older brothers and I’ve actually studied a bit about the birth order and gender dynamics. And I think this happens a lot when there’s a girl that has two older brothers.

I like rolled the show. I was in charge. I was the one who decided what we were going to do and when we were going to do it. And yeah, so that was my nickname growing up, but the governor and they actually, they still call me that. So it suits my personality. I do like to be in charge. I do naturally lead.

 I just, you know what it is, Tim, as I’ve really reflected on this in my growth, I love to bring people together to rally around something like that’s what it is. And so it’s it comes from a place of wanting to drive cohesion and vision and enthusiasm. And it has served me well, certainly.

Coach Tim Campsall: And you’ve been practicing it since you became the governor.  Great. So I know you’re currently the CEO of your business. I’ll have you tell us a little bit more about that here in a minute, but how’d that business come about? And I know, you’re in process of, an owner.

So what gave you the confidence that, first of all, that you could be a CEO, and now that you could, become an owner.

Andrea Butcher: What’s interesting, my journey is it’s just doing the work and doing the work well, gave me an opportunity. I never set out to be the CEO of a leadership development business, but I got here because I’m good at and really passionate about moving businesses forward through leadership capability.

So I mentioned earlier that’s really been my path. I worked internally, I ended up like leading HR and talent for large organizations, but I’ve also spent a lot of time on the consulting side. I was with a business called Flashpoint. It’s a leadership consulting business for nine years.

And there I really learned how to grow a consulting business and how to put people in the right roles at the right time and how to manage profitability and. So I feel like I got my business chops and then leading at an executive level, managing an 8 million PNL and a large team really gave me the business acumen and the.

I rounded out my natural passion for the work. And this is such a great story, how I got to HRD, a leadership development business I lead today in 2017. I was leading talent in HR internally for a security business and the founder of HRD who had founded the business in 1996 calls me up. And this is honestly how the phone call went.

Hey, Andrea, this is Mark. Long time, I’m a straight shooter, so I’m going to get right to it. We are ready to retire. And yet we have this business and there’s still some legacy clients. It’s still profitable. We know you we’ve seen you, you have a strong brand, a strong reputation.

You’re good at the work. Would you be interested in taking our business? You don’t get those phone calls every day. And it came out of nowhere. I, at the time, the team that I was leading wasn’t quite ready, but it did give me an opportunity to at least start having conversations with them. And it took about four or five months until I was ready to exit the organization I was leading in.

And we reached an agreement. They had sold the business a couple of years before. And so the new owner was only interested in the financials of the business and wanted me to grow the business and sell it. And so that, that was the plan coming in and how it happened. And it’s really interesting.

Initially that was seven years ago, so it’s been quite a ride and because of the pandemic, a lot of unexpected challenges, but today, so I am in the process of working with the current owner around a buyout agreement. It’s been a process. I have learned so much about myself. I also feel like, I feel like being a female in this environment has been really interesting.

Everyone I talked to about, cause I’m in an interesting situation, right? I have grown a business that I am now trying to buy. And so you can imagine the negotiation challenges we’re having

Andrea Butcher: I don’t really want to negotiate myself. That’s what I’m buying. So everyone I talk to, you know what they say?

They say, Oh, I got a guy you should talk to. I got a guy you should talk to. And I’ve talked to a lot of guys. Where are the females that are on the path to ownership and where’s the encouragement for that? There’s really not that perspective in the market. And so I’m starting to notice a gap and thinking about how can I help other female entrepreneurs that.

Or in this situation. Cause I, a lot of times candidly, I feel like I’m being taken advantage of because I haven’t owned a business before, but the thing is I’m really good at what I do. I know that I have proven success that I can grow businesses by leveraging talent and skills and.

So I’m just, I’m trying to figure out how best to navigate that right now in a way that honors my values and honors everybody involved.

Coach Tim Campsall: Absolutely. And I can imagine it’s an interesting dynamic because you’re ending up buying the business that you’ve significantly grown. So you’ve actually increased your purchase price.

Andrea Butcher: Exactly. You got it. Hence the challenge and yet there are these legacy clients. There is infrastructure. There are systems, there’s incredible talent, there’s a book of business. So I recognize there’s a lot of value there. It’s just trying to get to what’s fair.

Coach Tim Campsall: Yeah, absolutely. It sounds like you’re going to be able to write another book or create another podcast to help people with the experience, help other women to learn from the experience you’re going through.

Andrea Butcher: Yeah. Hey, Tim you cut out on me there. I think you said you were going to, that I could write another book about that. Yes. Yes.

Coach Tim Campsall: Yeah. You can write a book about your experience and help other female business owners.

Andrea Butcher: Exactly. You got it. I think so. Cause there’s definitely a, there’s definitely a gap there or a challenge there that I’m facing, but I’m up for it.

So I’m just, I’m going to keep going and persevering through.

Coach Tim Campsall: Tell us more about the company. What’s the name? What do you guys do? How do you help people? How do you help people?

Andrea Butcher: Oh, this is so fun. So we are a leadership development business. And at our core, we help leaders figure out who they are so that they can be more of that.

Leadership development is self development and Anyone listening, if you want to follow me on LinkedIn or social, I spend a lot of time talking about how we need to rethink leadership development. And you’re a coach, Tim. So you work with business owners every day. And a lot of times when you peel back the layers, it is a leadership challenge at the heart of it.

And so I feel real fortunate to create a safe space for leaders to really process and struggle through. That’s what’s really going on here. And it’s hard work lead. Leadership is hard. So the key with our growth experiences is over time we provide focused, like what are the focused competencies that we’re building within this group of leaders, accountability, because that’s where growth happens.

In a safe, like a psychologically safe way. So it isn’t, you will never hear me talk about leadership development as training. Training is a thing, for specific skills that you’re building, but leadership development, because it’s self development. I don’t have anything to train or teach anyone about becoming more of who they are.

Like I’m a coach. I’m a facilitator of that process. So when we talk about our work in terms of growth experiences, and that’s our value proposition, we promise growth. To our clients. And because we promise growth, we track and measure the shit out of growth through the process so that we can show at the end of the growth experience, here’s the impact that all of this hard work had on your leaders and they feel growth.

So it’s not surprising that our organization has grown. I think we’re we are talking about and marketing our work very different and it’s refreshing. Our Our proposal close rate is high because I hear, I are so many business leaders that I’m talking to about leadership development say wow you talk about it a lot different.I  spend a lot of time on the front end, making sure it’s the right people. None of our growth experiences are mandatory. Cause first of all, like nobody wants to be told what to do. And for someone to say I don’t want to participate in that training, like no amount of convincing them is going to up their level of willingness.

So let’s engage leaders in an application process. Like here’s what we’re doing. Here’s why, here’s the impact. Here’s what it’s, here’s what it will do. Here’s what it will feel like. Is that something that feels appealing to you? And if so, tell us why, and do you want to be a part of that? So a lot of time upfront on building connection, building.

Relatability building engagement in the process so that the people that are engaging in it are. Are there willingly?

Coach Tim Campsall: That is so cool. Hey, tell us a story where someone pushed you or inspired you and that you could do it. And even maybe you didn’t think that you could and the impact that person had on you.

Andrea Butcher: It was early in my career and I tell this story a lot and I love it so much because it’s such a good example of someone spotting potential and encouraging that I was 24 years old, right out of graduate school. I had just been promoted into this. Learning and performance role at this global electronics company.

I mentioned earlier, and the organization was going through a lot of change. We were completely changing our sales model to more of a like proactive, consultative selling model, and it was going to impact everything across the business. So they asked my team to. Do some research around change leadership.

And we found a great program. A lot of my team were over in the UK. We found a program in Manchester that equipped leaders to navigate change and to engage others in change. And so it felt really good for us. So I decided, okay, I’m going to go over it. I’m going to do this certification. It was a week long.

Remember I’m 24 years old. I had never delivered. Or facilitated training in a corporate world. But I was enthusiastic. I’m like, my boss was like, I think you’re the best person to do this. You go do this certification, come back, basically equip your team and then you all are going to deliver it all, all over the country.

That was the plan. So I’m in Manchester on the Thursday of that week, learning so much, loving this, thinking about how am I going to take this to my team? And my boss connected with me and said, Hey, we have a great opportunity. All of the CEOs of the European businesses are going to be in Manchester on Monday and Tuesday.

So can you, since you’re going through the certification, Andrea, stay and facilitate the learning with them. So you can imagine my reaction, 24 years old. Did you say all of the European CEOs, literally Fabio Ferrari from Italy was in the audience. I had three translators because English was a challenge for some leaders.

It was. It was such a big mountain to climb, but he said the magic words on that phone call. He said, Andrea, I would not ask you to do this if I was not confident that you could. And I was terrified and I’m sure it wasn’t that great, but I did it. And it gave me the confidence. My first corporate facilitation was with European CEOs.

Coach Tim Campsall: Good for you. That’s awesome. I know it was interesting.

Andrea Butcher: And they, I think they gave me a lot of grace. I was very clear that I’ve just gone through this certification. Yeah. But I, yeah. So what a great experience. That’s awesome.

Coach Tim Campsall: On the flip side, we know that business success doesn’t happen in isolation.

Tell us about one of the biggest challenges you’ve had. As a CEO and maybe somebody who came alongside you and helped you through that.

Andrea Butcher: Yeah. The challenge that I’m having right now that I think is just so par for the course in a growing consulting business is balancing capacity and sales.

We have a team, I’m obviously always managing profitability. And so wanting to ensure that we have the right mix, wanting to ensure we have the right people, but also people that. People that are doing the work. And so when new sales are coming in, it’s, I’m always balancing the not burning people out with enough work.

And so we leverage a lot of contract talent, but then staying connected to contract talent. The other thing, Tim that immediately comes to mind. So capacity is always a challenge for me. The other thing that comes to mind is just, is focus focus equals growth. And when, particularly during challenging times, I found myself chasing the revenue rather than really chasing.

What is the right work to do? So fortunately we’re in a good position with cashflow right now. And I have felt like even over the last few months have said, no, so many times, no, and here’s a partner. Here’s who’s in a better position to help you with that. Because it’s not our core focus because what has happened in the past when I’ve done that is all of a sudden we’re off doing work that isn’t what we’re great at.

No. It’s not the thing that’s going to support our growth. And so it’s hard. It takes discipline to say no, but I have found by building partners that do that kind of ancillary work that we could do, but that isn’t our core that frees me up and it also gives us a referral partner so that when opportunities that are more aligned come in there, they’re going to push them to us.

Coach Tim Campsall: It’s so hard to say no to that. Revenue, if somebody wants to pay you, right? Somebody wants to give you money and you’re like, no, I have to stay focused on what we do best and say no to that money. And

Andrea Butcher: I think that builds a lot of trust and respect also with clients. We’ve had a lot of clients that have said Hey, I so appreciate that.

And cause I think. In the past, I’ve maybe had a bit of a scarcity mindset oh my gosh, if I introduce someone else, then they’re going to be working with me. No, they’re going to know what we’re, what we are really good at and continue to leverage us for our strength.

Coach Tim Campsall: Yeah. One of the things we, how we define selling is professionally helping people to make a decision that’s right for them.

And so what you just described is that right? Like now you’re in a consultative mode, right? You’re a partner. You’re saying, Nope, you know what, I’m going to introduce you to someone else because that’s a better fit. And folks remember that.

Andrea Butcher: You got it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think one of the things, Tim, that led us to saying no, like you have to have a bigger, yes.

So we had to go through the process of what is our core? What are we the best at? And what is that process and getting that like really solid. It’s easier to say no to something when you have a bigger yes.So that has helped to, that has helped to free us up.

Coach Tim Campsall: Yeah. And you mentioned the scarcity versus abundance.

So having an abundance mentality, also gives you permission to say no, because we know that there’s more than enough out there. And if we know what our core is, we’re going to attract more of those folks. And saying no, just opens up the opportunity for more yeses later.

Andrea Butcher: Yeah, you got it.

It helps everything in the business. It helps focus all of your marketing, all of your communication efforts, all of your sales efforts. And operations as well, because now it’s let’s build processes around these things and these things only. And that’s our sole focus as a team.

Coach Tim Campsall: Now that, yeah, that’s fantastic. So I’m going to put you on the spot here a little bit, Andrea, and ask you to pick three people who have been most ink influential or helpful in the business’s growth folks that you’re most grateful for. So who are those three people? And I’ll help you.

Andrea Butcher: My VP of operations is a game changer for us. So as a leader, I’ve gotten really clear on what I’m great at. I am a visionary. I am an encourager. I spot potential. I will push people in the direction of their dreams. I don’t like to maintain, I don’t like to, I don’t like the detail follow through. And so I, a few years ago brought on the best.

Operations talent that I know a woman named Erica turcorn who I’d worked with previously. And she is genius at executing on vision. She’s genius at process and making sure that we stay on process and pointing back when something’s off to say because we’re off process and. She’s been a game changer for our business.

So I think for any business leader, I think a lot of times we try to wear too many hats, know the hats that aren’t your strength and supplement with talent that is passionate about that. That’s that’s been huge for us.

Coach Tim Campsall: That’s fantastic. Yeah it makes me think of, we use the disk assessment as a way to help understand, what people are good at and what they aren’t.

Oh, and usually the visionary of the organization is not so good at landing the plane. Having that operations person that can say, Hey, yeah, I’m embracing your vision and I’m going to, build out the plan and connect the dots and hold everyone accountable. And right now we have the yin for the yang and the business that working so much better.

Andrea Butcher: You got it well, and you’ve got to empower that talent because. Because you’re empowering their strength. And I, a lot of times, like the founder owner entrepreneur is so passionate. And I think in our passion and intensity, we close off and don’t intend to disempower the team, but we do. And. So it’s really important that we build a trusting environment like that, where she can say to me, that’s not the right thing.

Or you need to slow down right now. You need to pause because I’m always like, what’s next. What’s new. What’s next. What’s new. So she can bring me back to, to focus. This is our focus.

Coach Tim Campsall: What are the other two people?

Andrea Butcher: Then right next to Erica is Amanda Areses, who’s our VP of client experience. And I think this, if I think about my relationship with Amanda, it’s also such an important leadership lesson. I am on the path to ownership because I love the work that my organization does. And I think that’s the case for a lot of entrepreneurs. I read E myth a few years ago and it became clear to me I’m not gonna be able to scale this organization through me.

Yeah. And so Amanda has been pivotal to helping us scale. She and I are a lot alike. We share a lot of this, the same skill sets, and that has actually been really helpful because she can, if a new engagement, especially when we were grown, I’m doing very little delivery now, but a few years ago when I brought Amanda on, I could feel really confident in just yeah. Okay. Inserting her and selling her and introducing her. And that was huge in helping our business to scale. So she, now she, all of the facilitators and coaches run up through her. She has incredible relationships with our clients. She’s growing our client base because of the work that she does. So that that’s been a huge lesson to me is to find people that can help you, that can basically replicate, multiply you

Coach Tim Campsall: Yes. Yeah. You mentioned scale and it’s so true is we can only. We can only grow to our own capacity unless we bring others on to replicate our capacity. So that’s awesome

Andrea Butcher: You got it. And it’s, it, and it’s just so fun to see the business grow through her. It really is. And it’s also, from, for me in a growing business, I’m good at talking about the good work that my team is doing.

So sales become easy. It’s, I’m just talking about them and the results that they’re getting and what we’re seeing In our work.

Coach Tim Campsall: Yeah, I find it’s often easier to promote somebody else versus promoting ourself.  Now you’re selling your team instead of selling yourself.

It’s so much easier.

Andrea Butcher: Absolutely. And telling those stories is a lot of fun. It’s energizing.

Coach Tim Campsall: Who would be number three?

Andrea Butcher: The third person would be our new salesperson. So Anna Paterino joined us. She is, this is a great story. So she is an emerging leader. She’s new in her career and I’m having so much fun pouring into her.

She’s, her potential is immense. She’s a, she’s an absolute rock star. She. I’m on a board with her father and he connected with me last, early last year and asked me if I would just do some networking with her because she was in a sales role with Salesforce, but she was really interested in leader development.

So we had a networking meeting and five minutes into the conversation, I’m thinking, okay, I’m not networking with her. I’m totally going to hire her. She’s genius and brilliant. And. I loved her presence and confident and just what a dynamic young woman. And so she’s been with us now for a few minutes, few months, but what she has really, this is I think another lesson she’s really just brought so much rigor to our sales process.

So she, having this sales background from Salesforce, she’s really good at all of the touch points and she’s, she does 50 reach outs a day. Yeah. Wow. 50 because she knows it’s a numbers game and she’s doing all of these cold calls. And what’s interesting is now like our goal is five meetings a week.

And so I just show up to these meetings. She prepares me. She equips me. She gives me all the background. She tells me about their business. She tells me about their need. She tells me about them so that I can just show up and leverage my strengths. She’s doing all of the rigor and all of the work. It’s it’s, it is such an important investment that we’ve made.

And one of the things I’ve learned as a business leader is. That sales rigor, having a management and an accountability system in place. I’ve hired good salespeople in the past because they were great salespeople.

And it was basically like, good luck, go sell. And I didn’t have the management or accountability system in place.

There wasn’t real clear expectation. There were revenue goals, but we didn’t have all those leading. Measures in place and we weren’t monitoring those. And so now she reports up to my colleague, Erica, who’s an incredible manager. They’re constantly checking in. There’s clear visibility on where we are and where she is.

And it’s it’s been a game changer for our business. Our PI our pipeline is greater now than it ever has been in the history of our business. And it’s because of her.

Coach Tim Campsall: That’s awesome. That you mentioned the tracking the. The phrase of what gets measured gets done. It’s just a game changer, right? Of Hey, it is about the seeds.

How many seeds are you planning? So those 50 reach out today, right? Because, some of those will sprout right away. Some will sprout next year, and so what are we doing to continue nurturing those? And yeah, the pipeline results of that activity is just unbelievable. Absolutely.

Andrea Butcher: Yeah.

And her attitude, you talked about abundance versus scarcity, she is always maybe not right now, but it’ll come around maybe not right now, but it’ll come around. And we did an event. Just listen to this initiative. This is amazing. We did an event in Terre Haute last week. So a couple of weeks before the event, she drove to Terre Haute.

She took a bunch of HRD sales and marketing materials, and she went into businesses, inviting them to this event. That’s just, who does that?

 She’s fearless. And I love that.

Coach Tim Campsall: That, that, that idea of, not fearing rejection and not caring if people say no, and what you said of, or she’s Hey, if not now it’ll be later.

Yeah. Yeah. That persistence and confidence is amazing. That’s awesome.

Andrea Butcher: Yeah, it’s great.

Coach Tim Campsall: Andrea, as you think about the next one to three years, what’s your number one priority or the challenge that you see in achieving your goals?

Andrea Butcher: Yeah. So this path to ownership is big. I’m really working to figure that out and continued growth, continued scale. One of the things that we’re looking at in our business is how to more so tech enable the work that we do, leadership development and executive coaching, as Tim, it is so relational and. What’s happening a lot in our industry is these AI generated coaching platforms.

And I definitely see value in the just-in-time, but you’re never going to replace the human-to-human connection. So we’re trying to figure out how to supplement technology with the human to human. And just, yeah, exploring ways to do that and to get closer. Cause leadership happens in the moment. And so we’re always like, how do we get closer to leaders?

How do we add value to them in those challenging moments when they need a safe place or a trusted advisor?

Coach Tim Campsall: I love it. That’s awesome. Hey, last question here, Andrea. Jim Rohn, an amazing business guru, one of his quotes is that we become the average of the five people that we spend the most time with. So as you think about that quote, what advice would you have for, new business owners who are, or aspiring business owners who are trying to do it on their own and figure it out by themselves?

Andrea Butcher: Yeah, definitely leaning in to your trusted advisors is really key, but I do think, I don’t think it’s figuring it out yourself, but I do think there it’s trusting yourself. Yeah. I was. I have a big speaking engagement coming up and I was looking for a quote and I was doing some research and exploration and I’ve had this feeling of I gotta find something out there to say, to connect.

And then I’m like, wait a second, like I have a point of view on this topic. Why do I feel like I have to find something out there? And I share that because I think that happens a lot in our day to day and we get caught up in. Oh, gosh. Scott’s point of view is a really good one. So I need to take that on or the feedback and the information in the outside world is so valuable.

So long as we are checking in with ourselves and. How does that feel to me? And I don’t know, I, this is an interesting thing. I think it’s different for women than it is for men. I, for me right now in my life as a business leader, I have spent most of my career looking out there for answers and I am finding the more I trust myself.

The more confident I am, the clearer I am, I’ve tripped over my words in the past, because I’ve tried to take on the words that others want me to say, or what someone else encouraged me to say. And so now I’m just, I’m really working to dig deep in who am I, what do I want and what do I need and how can I communicate in that in a way that best connects with my audience.

Coach Tim Campsall: I love it. Yes.

Andrea Butcher: That’s a little slant on your question. Yeah,

Coach Tim Campsall: No, I love it. The reality is that if we don’t, if we don’t believe it in ourself if we’re not confident in ourself, it doesn’t matter what someone else has said to us. Cause like you said we’re going to trip over it cause it just doesn’t feel right.

Or it just doesn’t work. So I appreciate it.

Andrea Butcher: It’s inauthentic. Yeah. It’s. It’s like when we’re walking around with a mask on, it feels awkward. It feels clumsy.

Coach Tim Campsall: I love it. Andrea, it’s been a pleasure speaking with you today. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Andrea Butcher: Thank you so much for having me on the show.

And thank you for the great work you’re doing, Tim. I’m so grateful for you and for the forum that you have for these conversations.

Coach Tim Campsall: Hey, I do actually want to add a bonus question. You spoke a lot about a number of folks who have had an impact on you, if they were all on the show today, what would you want to say to them?

Andrea Butcher: I love you. I’m so grateful for you. Thank you for enriching my life. Yeah. And the good news is I think they all know that.

Coach Tim Campsall: I love it. And yeah, have a awesome rest of your day.

Andrea Butcher: You too. Thanks, Tim.

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To join our movement, go to BeMadTogether. com Okay folks, that’s a wrap. Please pay it forward and be sure to tune in next time to the Self Made is a Myth podcast.