February 21, 2024

Episode #124: Jacob Wise – Crafted

Jacob Wise was grew up on the east side of Indianapolis. He founded Crafted with his 2 partners Job and Sean in 2017. Crafted is a digital agency that partners with growth seeking organizations to help build user interfaces that scale.


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you’re listening to the self-made is a myth make a difference together show with your host coach Tim campsa where we talk with successful business owners to hear the stories of their Journeys in building their successful businesses and more importantly we recognize the folks who help them Excel because we know that achieving business success is not something we can do on our own hello everyone this is coach Tim campel and I’m excited to have a fellow business owner from Indiana with us today my guest check this out he’s right-handed but he writes backhanded um more like a lefty would and in his downtime he enjoys being on the lake on his jet ski and he’s most proud of becoming a big brother and his little place second in H wrestling in the state which is very cool uh it is my pleasure to welcome Jacob to the show today hello Jacob hey Tim how’s it going I’m awesome thanks for asking well hey let’s start with having you uh introduce yourself to the audience tell us a little bit of your personal story like where you were born and live and about your family and hobbies yeah sure so um I was actually born in terot Indiana but spent about three days there um grew up uh mostly on the east side of Indianapolis uh my family is from a small town in Indiana Washington Indiana I’m sure a handful of people have heard of that but um so yeah I grew up on the east side um uh kind of a big family three Three Brothers all named uh starting with Jay uh three years apart so kind of easy math there to remember the basics of the family unit um lots of sports growing up my mom was always always my coach and my dad was too but my mom was louder um and yeah yeah kind of um they were entrepreneurial my dad owned a construction company and and kind of got my foot in the door got the bug of hey this is is an option for me um and kind of all went from there very cool so tell us uh about the the writing so my dad was left-handed So when you say backwards you mean like kind of like upside down that way yeah yeah it’s such a funny thing I I I like to dunk on myself a little bit because people I don’t write there very much anymore right so I I I I’m on we’re all on computers all the time um but when I do have to write for a check or whatever people always I can tell they’re giving me that look because it’s really awward are they’re like are you okay man I’ve been doing it since I was a little kid um teachers tried to work it out of me but I’m pretty stubborn and probably says a lot about me but uh yeah know it’s a funny thing and and it’s just it looks so weird so love to that’s fantastic uh and beyond that one is there another a funny story that your family likes to tell about you that you’d be willing to share with us today oh gosh uh well in high school I I grew my hair out very long and got it permed um so they they really like to bring that one up of like you know the Judgment I I would say Juniors or sophomores in high school probably aren’t uh prepared to make that level of hairstyle oh oh man I’d love to see a picture of that I’ll have to get one to you that’s pretty pretty comical thought it looked great cool hey Jacob tell us how’ the business come about and at what point did you have the confidence that you could run your own business oh yeah so um the well the the my current business craft had kind of spawned out of two uh prior businesses um and it started after college um kind of in this uh uh 2008 2009 um not a great time to to be job hunting um you needed five years experience for an entry-level job at that point um so I was dabbling on some things on the side I actually started a business with my parents and through that kind of spawned um uh uh the web business that I started initially so just out of um uh a lot of opportunity a lot of like room for error there and uh uh kind of doing friends and work for friends and family um that kind of stuff kind of catapulted to um good timing where my younger brother graduated and he was also looking for something to do so um that’s kind of how I how I got my start into the business world was a lot of trial on air lots of failures um you know just just kicking the tires kind of stuff very cool and you you mentioned that your your uh family was entrepreneurial so is that where you had the confidence that you could uh go out on your own yeah I mean I think it was just kind of a mindset of you know I’ve seen you you see other people doing stuff and it’s just kind of a something that it’s it’s not a thought like there was no idea in my mind that I couldn’t do this this um it was always an option on the table so I was very fortunate to see um people being entrepreneurial in action um around me as I grew up and had that as an option on the table so that was really kind of where that confidence came from was was uh you see it enough you’re like okay people can do this right and if you you had the confidence to perm your hair I mean you could pretty much tackle the world right yeah junior junior high school me was H confidence was Sky High maybe a little too high so tell us more about the company um you mentioned the name but say that again and what you do how do you help people yeah so the company’s crafted um we are digital agency here located here in Indianapolis um 14 of us so we’re small and agile um we help companies build scalable UI so what does that mean it basically is um if if you are a legacy software company that’s looking to get into the modern um world of software we can help you build those UI to to support that we also build uh apps for startups um and do all sorts of software development but our main focus is getting people to that nextg U modern uh UI and and front-end uh Frameworks so um a lot of our work there is is kind of it it’s funny it’s kind of like we do a lot of programming but we also do a lot of like Road mapping and um helping companies set the vision and tone for their future um and then whether we’re doing some of the work or they are um that’s sort of sort of our our go-to um uh realm there so fantastic for everyone listening make sure to go check out the company in the link in the description and and visit Jacob on LinkedIn and let him know that you watched his interview so oh yeah tell me I did a great job too by the way Jacob share a story where someone pushed you or inspired you that you could do it even though maybe you didn’t think that you could and the impact that that person had on you yeah um so so a lot of my inspiration you know early like you know your formidable formidable years in high school um I was a wrestler and uh um you know did a lot of the extra things like I was afforded a lot of opportunities to go to a lot of the extra camps and Nationals but it was my high school coach and my my parents who really set the tone for me early about I can do anything if I just put my mind to it and work hard um and uh through my high school at my senior year actually um I hadn’t done anything in state yet I I hadn’t even gone to state or placed um but I made it my mission junior year that I was going to train really hard I was going to put every ounce of energy that I had into this um and uh my coach coach Leed better um actually was was the one who was like hey come in early um we were there basically every morning at 5:00 A.M working and it was kind of like just a lot of like reinforcing like my behaviors and that kind of stuff confidence building but uh that year I did um play second in state and it was just an amazing uh experience for me because um kind of cemented in my mind that if you have a goal if you have something you’re trying to accomplish if you just keep telling yourself over and over again this is what you’re going to do this is how you’re going to accomplish it and then you put in the work to do it um it just kind of it’s magic it takes care it’s not magic because it’s a lot of hard work yeah yeah it’s one of those things that you look up and you’re like oh my gosh I’m doing a thing and all took was doing all the boring stuff that you don’t want to do right yes so well tremendous uh parallels to business because there’s a whole lot of boring stuff that we don’t enjoy doing in business as well yeah absolutely yeah so I in your introduction I mentioned that you’re H you’re a big brother and that you’re little uh Russell as well so that’s interesting that you’re able to pass on that uh that Legacy or that experience yeah it’s been an awesome experience see I I’ve been wanting I had been wanting to uh get involved in the program for a long time and finally pulled the trigger and it’s like the best decision I ever made you know whatever whatever the littles get out of it the bigs get tenfold it’s just so rewarding and and and it’s it’s seriously been one of the more or most transformative experiences of My Life um I’ve been doing it for about a year now so I would encourage anyone who’s ever thought about getting involved just go go do it go talk to somebody because it’s awesome yeah I age you get I I was a big for about seven years when I lived in Milwaukee and yeah I got more I think I’m sure I got more out of it than he did it’s just a very rewarding experience yeah yeah for sure hey Jacob um what’s the biggest learning that you’ve had so far as a business owner yeah I would say the biggest learning is um early on it was very much I thought the work was going to be the hard part and and I this is a common theme I hear across a lot of new business owners I talk to a lot of startup and you know there’s a lot of focus early on of like do a thing very very well and you you do have to do that um but what I was surprised by was how much of business is is the relationships and um nurturing those relationships and making sure you’re doing the right things to set yourself up for Success um I was taken aack early on in my career of how many times I delivered uh great results but the outcome was not good and it’s because of expect ation setting or misunderstandings and Alignment early on in the process um lots of things that can be solved by communication um but when you’re starting out you don’t communicate well because you’re you’re afraid you’re you know you’re going to be made out to be an impostor there’s all all these things going on but that was my biggest learning it took a while to figure that out I was just mad for a while yeah I didn’t know who or at what but I was mad so yes that was probably my my biggest learning I love it one of the uh the things that we say here at action coach is that communication is the result that we get right so if you if if a a customer who we delivered great results for fires us then right that’s really you know the the result of our communication and to your point right it’s it’s more about that relationship and that Rapport and and you know having Clarity of expectations and being aligned and being on the same page and and unfortunately as as much as we’d all like it to be black and white about the results it’s it’s just simply not right right so Jacob we know that business success doesn’t happen in isolation so tell us about um your biggest challenge during the years and maybe a fellow business owner or a colleague who came alongside of you and helped you through that yeah that’s a that’s a a good question so biggest challenge um I think was was early on um excuse me just just having the um the willpower to keep moving forward I had a a early on you know a couple of clients that went sideways and um I really wanted you know I didn’t want to give up but I I was feeling like there was no hope you know there was no light at the end of the tunnel um and you know I had an amazing group of um support uh members around me specifically my dad was always there to just kind of calm the storm and tell me like hey there’s light at the end of the tunnel um you’re going to you’re going to be fine just keep moving forward kind of thing um and we made it through and you know I’m I didn’t die so that’s great I feel like our fear brains are always way out of control in business and our reactions are not proportional to the reality um and that was really um true for me early on um so it was nice to have that support group of people who um for one would let me vent but two we’re there to be supportive and not pile on and just say hey I hear you but keep moving forward and and you’re going to be okay so um that was was early on is always the the you know I think there’s always challenges further down the road but after you’ve been through a handful of things you’re just like it’s it’s we’ll get through this yeah you mentioned fear it’s such a powerful uh limiting Force we actually Define it as false expectations is appearing real because typically right we’ll in our head we’ll blow it up and we’ll assume the worst case scenario and then we believe that wor worst case scenario and right and and we prevent oursel we paralyze oursel from from pushing through it so it’s yeah being able to re rejigger it right and rethink it and go okay hold on wait a minute that’s the worst case here’s the best case here’s the most probable now let’s let’s move forward yeah and I I I will just to add to that it’s like feel like there’s a self-fulfilling prophecy when you’re when you’re fearful you almost project that on to people and and you can’t decide whether that that was really going to be the reaction or was it because the way it yes absolutely I mean the the whole uh concept of the Law of Attraction right so what we think and believe is what we attract so if we’re sitting across from a prospect you know and we’re we are nervous and feel like we’re not going to get the deal guess what’s going to happen they’re going to sniff at that fear and we’re not gonna get the deal y y hey Jacob if I gonna put you on the spot here ask you to pick three people in your business owner Journey who you’re most grateful for them being there to help with your success who are those three people and and how did they help you yeah well I can always name uh my family um so you know my business partner job he’s my younger brother um he was a kind of that steady you know unemotional rock for me early on um maybe he just didn’t know to be emotional I don’t know but like whatever he has in him it was very comforting um he’s a great listener and and doesn’t overreact a lot so um he was was really great sorry if there’s a there’s literally a train going by right now but um I would say I would say definitely my my brother job and I could mention any one of my family members as a support um but I’ll just I’ll just pick him and Leone will finally know he’s my favorite then I would say um uh Sean Sean Heist my my business partner U my other business partner um he has been um instrumental in my growth of you know he’s got a little bit of a a I want to say Swagger or just confidence to him that helped me early on when I was struggling with um providing value but not getting the results I was was looking before so he’s helped me take that kind of next step and you know the third one it’s like there’s so many people that that have helped me along the way um it’s really hard to pick you know those two are obvious it’s like my two business partners right um uh I did say I was gonna put you on the spot yeah yeah I’m I’m just gonna go back in time and and and I’m gon to say I’m going to say my coach um from high school Co LED better he he he really didn’t we we kind of lost touch after after high school and and college um chatted a few times but he really set me up for success of you know he was just such a hard worker and such instilled in me just um go to the gym go to the room keep keep putting in the time kind of thing um that I think without that I probably would have been um not it would have been tougher for me and my journey would have been looked a lot different probably so awesome I I love you mentioned it a couple times of just that perseverance so when things get tough or you know the fear gets in the way it’s really about the you know doing the Reps right remembering the the daily practice of you know my coach would told me in my first couple years when you know I was going through those fears and doubts and and worries and and couldn’t see the light at the end of the tunnel it says hey Tim just be persistent and consistent keep keep doing the D keep planting the seeds some will Sprout now many will Sprout later and it’s all about you know continuing to to do those activities and and don’t doubt yourself and and you know don’t stop doing it don’t give up because you’d mention it there are many times that I wanted to give up as well because right you just don’t see what you don’t know and and until you go through it a few times and you mentioned you know now you have less of that happening because you know that you’ll make it through but in the beginning it’s hard to see that this isn’t this thing in front of us isn’t going to kill us right yeah Y no it’s it’s so hard so hard but now and and you know it’s it’s also especially like you you a lot of people are asking you throughout your journey how’s it going and and you don’t want to sound negative so like that’s another hard part is in the beginning you’re yeah it’s great and then the inside you’re just dying you’re like oh my God so difficult I hate so like I I think it’s important when people are starting that they understand that hey everybody’s struggling um we all are going through this it’s our social media or our outward projection is never really truly representative of how how things are on the ground so um that’s why I would encourage people to just keep going it’s it’s never all rainbows and and sunshine it’s there’s always the nitty-gritty stuff that kind of stinks so I I appreciate you sharing that because it is true when we look at social media that obviously everyone’s is going to put their best foot forward because that’s you know what’s needed to to Market our business but yes the reality is is it’s it’s not always easy and it’s not always fun and there’s lots of challenges and and and guess what it’s really Lonely at the Top so a lot of folks don’t even have somebody that they can talk to about this issue I mean you’ve been fortunate because you have a couple of business partners right that you’re able to you know probably lament with and and talk things out loud and be real with with each other about the the actual you know emotional roller coaster that have starting a business can be all about yeah yeah I appreciate Jacob that you be you know being transparent about it’s not always it’s not always roses and butterflies there’s some hard times and some some doubtful times for sure for sure so as you think about the next one to three years what’s the number one you know either point of growth or challenge that you see that you’re going to need to work through in order to achieve achieve your goals yeah um so I would say we’re we’re 14 people it’s just that right size of company that um the owners are still working sort of in the business a little bit um probably more than we should um it’s that next step of growth where we’ve got a great group of um of people that work for us and uh their next level of growth is is going to be vital for for our business um so that we can expand and get bigger we’ve we’ve gotten a little bit bigger than 14 before and um it’s right at that sweet spot of once you get to like 16 18 um it becomes a little bit harder to do all the things that the owners do um at that size so um for us it’ll probably be deciding um how we want to go down that journey and if we’re you know do we want to go wider do we want to go deeper you know so for us that’s that’s kind of where we’re at in The Crossroads um in our business and and it’s very similar to a lot of businesses we’re fortunate we’ve we’ve done pretty well and pretty steady throughout the years um it’s just how do you go from a steady uh business to growth um and do that in a sustainable um responsible way because you do have 14 people that you’re you’re um a part of your family here so uh you got have you have to consider that as you’re taking these risks or looking at these opportunities so yeah I I appreciate the the that concept of hey I’ve got a got a team to take care of right I need to be responsible and and uh you know make sure that we’re we’re being you know taken care of them and doing the the right things for them as well that that’s an awesome perspective you know what you just talked about in terms of scale I’ll call it scaling is very common so typically what we see is you know as businesses grow right the the owner may start out on their own and then hire a couple of folks and have more like of a manager role and then you know as the company grows they become more like owner operators but they’re still in the day-to-day and still very much the glue that that holds the company together and then typically what’ll happen is it it as the business continues to be successful is the the business outgrows the capacity of the owners and so we typically see you know the the business will will spike in terms of growth and then it plateaus and and it’s because it can’t grow beyond the owner so really what you just said is is the the next step for a lot of companies it’s like all right do we want to stay where we’re at where we have our hands pretty much in everything or most things right and can can you know make quick decisions because we’re in the know or do we want to scale and have the business grow beyond our our capability of being involved in all the day-to- day so I appreciate you sharing that because I think there’s a lot of folks who are at that inflection point of you know do we stay where we’re at or do we you know double down and and look at uh significant growth yeah yeah for sure so um Jacob as you you you think about uh you know taking on that next step what do you feel is the you know the the thing that’s in right in front of you that you you have to address or change or or work through yeah that’s an excellent question I would say um uh probably sales like our business has always operated under um you know very referral based very people we know who know people and there’s just not been um uh uh in all the owners are we’re all very capable we have good networks we are good communicators um so we’re very capable when we need to go get work um or explore those options so I think for us it would be uh building a more sustainable sales uh system um because that’s always historically been our bottleneck of we get busy you know and this is I see this all the time like we because we work with a lot of businesses we get to um a mini preview of how their businesses operate um and it’s all the time where people are always kind of chasing their own tail or you get you get a bunch of sales in with then you gota you gotta do the work and when you’re doing the work you’re not getting the sales so um for us I think that the path is pretty clear we have to um uh find a more sustainable way to attract leads um which a lot of businesses are are struggle with that yes absolutely got to be the number one issue right but uh that’s that’s probably where my head goes to initially um you know and then second second tier there is just uh internal processes and and building uh leaders you know continuing to have better systems when when you’re small you have the uh you you have the luxury of you can pretty much do things cowboy style or just a lot um and you see big bureaucracies and you see how those systems work and why they exist but also how they can be um negative in some aspects so trying to strike that balance of is this one of my employees actually were talking the other about a new a new process and I was saying you know hey we we want to make sure this doesn’t slow us down and his response was if if uh if the tool becomes an obstacle then it’s no longer a tool yeah and was just like okay you got it go go do that thing now like that and that’s that’s always reassuring to hear when we we try to talk in our business to um everybody as if we’re all business owners here because at the end of the day like we can’t do this without our team and and if they can think about things the way we’re thinking about them more um we have more success um and and ultimately what we’re trying to do is is build something that can grow and and also build us our lifestyle that that we’re looking to achieve as well so I like a couple things that um you you were saying that I think the audience would benefit from so first of all the uh the Teeter Totter effect of get the work do the work right so if we’re if we get too much work and now we have to do it all then we can’t get more work and then when the work’s done it’s like oh crap the the funnel is empty now we got to go back to from a cash flow standpoint that’s really not fun right because we we have a bunch of stops and starts and and then uh the systematizing of the business I I like what your team member said of you know at the end of the day a system should help us become more efficient and effective and and Elevate us to being able to grow faster it shouldn’t be something that’s slowing us down and and preventing us from from being able to do the job so there’s you know there’s some discernment that needs to happen in that and and evaluation of is this the right tool and and do we have the right oversight of the tool to make sure that it’s actually helping to F to facilitate us going faster as opposed to you know the the bureaucracy that you mentioned earlier of you know the tool can’t create this process that stops us from being able to be the awesome company that we already are yeah yeah no I mean there’s a lot of times I’ve seen even in you know within our organization is just the knee-jerk reaction of something goes wrong then you figure out you do a retro or or you inspect what went wrong you figure that out then you put in these guard rails to make sure that never goes wrong again but the guard rails are counterproductive in the sense that they take so much time to implement or to to maintain that well maybe there’s a different solution so I would encourage business owners to definitely um be retrospective and make sure you’re looking at the things that are working and aren’t working very important um and don’t overreact to the things that aren’t working but do experiment and always keep in mind of this is the solution sensible and reasonable for the application that we’re using it with so um I’ve done it everybody’s done it where you overreact and now it’s now it’s this obstacle and you’re just like I hate this and right there’s a better way yes indeed um you mentioned you know just your interactions with other businesses and seeing common themes and it’s it’s true there the the bottlenecks or the challenges that businesses face are very common as they’re growing and and one that that you just mentioned is that you know as a smaller company it’s easy for all of the knowledge and and processes to be in our head right and and we just do it naturally because we’ve always done it that way but as we bring on new team members like it’s really hard to transfer you know five or 10 or 20 years of expertise that’s in our head you know into a new employee and expect them to be able to do it as good as we can um without having some type of system or process or documentation or how to um so that they have something to go to and and follow and go oh yeah okay that’s what Jacob said I I I know he told me five points but I only remembered three of them and now he’s busy and I don’t know if I want to you know bother him and and so yeah by having it written out oh yeah way more efficient for him to read oh there’s what number three was yeah yeah it’s it’s funny because I don’t know where I heard it but it’s something the the effect of you can um it was it’s not exactly applicable here but it it it’s more about uh sometimes there’s this knee-jerk reaction of when someone comes to me I’ll say oh I could just do that in two seconds instead of explain it to them and the payoff is like you could tell that person 20 or 30 times that’d be better to write it down and tell them once um or maybe twice but you could tell that person 20 times how to do that and it’d still be in a long run more efficient than if you just took on the work and change what you were doing so I try to keep that in my head um on a day-to-day basis and and yeah processes are writing systems down is important um sometimes you just my my issue is always making sure that am I writing the system down because it’s a problem we need to system systematize or is there a better alternative way or should we even be doing this you know so and that’s always the hard part is midf flow like you’re trying to get stuff done you’re also trying to be thoughtful and and prescriptive about how you’re doing it and how this might affect future work so um pain is normally the best indicator for me of like okay this has annoyed me enough times that something’s got to get fixed here so I I love what you said everybody has this perspective of hey it’s just easier for me to do it myself and and the the truth the honesty is it is it’s always easier for you to do it yourself in the moment correct yeah however if the if you’re getting that question on a regular basis then it shifts because the opportunity cost is hey I can keep answering this question two or three times a week for the rest of my life or I could take an hour and while I’m doing it this time document how I did it right I tell people use two screens right do the actual thing on screen one and have your process document on screen too and and now it’s there and the next time they ask how to do it you say hey please refer to this link and let me know what questions you have and now you know over the lifetime we’ve just saved ourself five minutes here and 10 minutes there and you know five minutes here and now it becomes hours that we’ve just saved yeah no absolutely and I I don’t know if it’s ego or or fear or what but you know that was something that speaking of things that I struggled with early on was just getting past that and you know you hire people that are talented why not why not leverage that and have them you know it’s like there I don’t know but I I just got back from a two we vacation and it was the best vacation I’ve ever taken not only because it was a beautiful place but because I knew that everybody on my team is so capable that there’s just nothing that’s going to come up that’s not going to be something they can either handle or we can defer if it’s you know there might be like a password I know that no one else knows still but that still a thing but uh you know it’s just one of those things like I I felt very confident in their ability to handle those things and uh it was um for for peace of mind and just for for future like it’s just a good feeling to have so you mentioned um uh you know maybe it’s an eagle thing well here’s the reality is is there’s a significant mindset shift that we all need to go through because you know let’s face it the the our business is our baby right we we went through the initial few years of pain of you know figuring it out and getting it to work and it’s it’s hard to let go so the the the big mindset shift that we all have to go through is going from owner operator to to more of a CEO mindset right and and being out comfortable letting go and trusting the team and knowing that we’ve got the right processes in place and and you know feeling like hey I know they’re going to make mistakes I made mistakes it’s okay because we’ve got a you know a safety net in place that they can’t make too big of mistakes and but that’s not something that just happens overnight right there there’s a like I said there’s a big mindset shift that has to happen there and a growth that we need to go through in order to get to that place where it’s like okay yep I’ve I’ve arrived at the next level and I’ve got a business that is capable of running without my day-to-day interactions and and uh you know it takes time yeah the only thing I would correct there is I never made any mistakes so I you must be talking about someone else I think job might tell me something different yeah yeah he defitely so last question here um Jim Ron said we become the average of the five people that we spend the most time with so Jacob as you think about that quote what advice would you have for business owners who are trying to do it on their own yeah um well that quote is is so applicable um and and really your network and the people you talk to on a day-to-day basis is is very important but um the one advice I would give business owners is where people try to do it on their own is don’t try to do everything on your own there are plenty of people who have been exactly where you’ve been Who Um can at least give you their perspective it may not be the thing you need to do but it’s at least something another angle another perspective that you can lean on and get a better sense of hey you know it become Things become way less overwhelming when you talk to a few people and you realize okay this is not something new this is not unique to me um uh there’s plent of resources out there to help me and it’s really hard to know that or to um get to that in the moment like when someone send you a scathing email about how bad you are all you want to do is fire back you know no you’re bad and it’s like there there are these opportunities we have and early on you’re definitely going to miss miss them but um remembering that uh you’re you’re not the worst like you’re not an impostor everyone’s struggling um despite what it looks like on social media just ask PE ask for help is my my main takeaway ask people for help and you’ll be surprised how willing people are to help you um because it’s just a great it’s a great feeling you know to help somebody else so ask for help yeah there are a lot of folks who have said hey Tim I’m afraid of you know asking somebody for a coffee meeting they might say no and everybody I’ve had on the show has said the essentially the same thing is hey we’ve all been there so if somebody if another business owner reaches out and wants to you know chat about some ideas happy to pass it you know to pay it forward because we’ve all been there yeah yeah and the worst they can say is no honestly um and I I early on speaking of early on experiences I I was about a year into my business I asked a a chief marketing officer of a very big company here in town just just called LinkedIn and said hey um would you like to meet um and he was like sure and I I was so nervous and and didn’t really do a good job of preparing because I was like this guy see me for the fraud I am but but it was still a reminder carrying with me forward that they people like to help you know um and of course if I could go back in time I would have prepared better questions and not so dear in the headlights but you have to be where you are and that’s where you know so but yeah awesome Jacob it sounds like you’ve had some uh pretty incredible people in your life that had helped you on your business Journey if they were all on the show here today what would you want to say to them yeah um just just a a very deep and and sincere thank you for uh the opportunities that I’ve been provided um it’s it’s one of those things that we are the safety net that that we’re provided and you know the ability to fail I’m truly a True Believer in success is generally indicated by how many times you were allowed to fail um and I’ve been allowed to fail a lot maybe too many time no but I would just say thank you from the bottom of my heart and just um you know they don’t they probably know how much it’s meant over the years so just I couldn’t have done it without people you know I wouldn’t be where I am today without the people around me so thank you fantastic Jacob it’s been a pleasure having you on the show today thanks so much for your time yeah thanks for having me thanks for listening to the self-made is a myth show please help spread this Movement by liking and subscribing to our show and following us on Facebook and Linkedin to join our movement go to bead together.com okay folks that’s a wrap please pay it forward and be sure to tune in next time to the self-made is a myth podcast